Forum

Paul
At the Management Board meeting where it was decided to propose the introduction of 8 team leagues you got up and left after that decision never to return and I was not curious enough to enquire why and Wylie noted at the next meeting that you had resigned but (rightly) gave no reason. Neither patronising nor utter rubbish but based on the evidence that was before me. Either way, you had a chance to influence the direction of local cricket from its administrative source but chose to shout from the sidelines.
In response to your last paragraph, we do want the same things but most likely disagree on how far we have come and the best way to continue on that path. I started playing competive cricket in 1978 and I've seen considerable improvement in facilities in that time and not just within my current club. To my mind there has also been a considerable improvement in standards and a very simple demonstration of that would be the number of home grown players throughout Ireland that now ply their trade on the county circuit; in my day the only one that I can think of is the late Dermot Monteith.
Participation levels is always going to be a contentious issue and it is difficult to judge by just taking a club view; we need to take an all Ireland view. Whether the 400% is an accurate estimate is really up to the reliability of statistics and indeed the data that is obtained from clubs that feed those statistics. It sounds a very impressive headline figure and we have a right to question cricket Ireland about this but perhaps the best place for that would be if they participated in the Union AGMs and held a question and answer session; if Warren Deutrom decides to answer your question then he may find a flood of others that would take up his time when he is trying to promote Cricket Ireland at the political levels.
My personal view is that participation is increasing at younger levels but it seems to wane at around the age of 16 and 17 and I would postulate that there are many reasons for this. In the days when you and I started (and a lot of the Management Board also) there was less to do and personal transport was less available. School examinations consisted of 'O' levels and 'A' levels instead of the constant stream of examinations and associated studying that we have today. What I see at the lower levels of my own club is that as soon as the examinations stop there is an exodus from this country and it can be difficult to rekindle the interest as soon as they return, in effect more than half way through the season. To my mind many a good player has been lost due to this and it was interesting to hear Fergus Slattery at a dinner state that despite Blackrock College having two Under 19 teams each year they struggled to get senior teams out. Locally, with a lot of clubs having an U15 team that will be refreshed every other year why are there not an increasing number of senior teams? I also see that players tend to stop playing at an earlier age and no longer drop down through the club but I'm buoyed by the increase in lads and dads teams that I'm starting to see.

Very sad to learn of "Gentleman" Jim Simpson's passing. Excellent tribute from Clarence and he has covered everything. As a young cub reporter he took me under his wing and his wise counsel kept me up to date with all things in the North West and he was a good friend ever since. My condolences to the family circle, especially Dean, David and Richard

Hearty congratulations to cregagh on winning the Graham cup. A real David v Goliath epic! Hope all those young and obviously talented players remain at the club and help restore it to its former glory! A special well done to David McCormick!

Very sorry to learn of the death of Jim Simpson & I extend my deepest sympathy to Dean and the wider family circle

David Edwards

“You were part of this discussion at the time but chose to jump ship because you didn't like the decision of the Board rather than using some diplomacy to try to persuade them of the errors of their ways and you retreated to your previous, cosy option of shouting from the sidelines.”

Utter rubbish and patronising rubbish at that. I suggest you have a quiet word with Wylie as to the reasons I left the NCU Board and sort out your facts. Suffice to say I will not be back.

I have no agenda. My playing days are almost over. I will never be involved in committees again so my only option is to say nothing or to make my point via forum that I feel we are going in the wrong direction. A lot of people share the views I express so bear that in mind when you express your contempt.

I assume we want the same things, improved playing standards, facilities and participation levels. Apathy levels are high because ordinary players and clubs feel they have no voice. When Warren Deutrom comes out with 'player levels are up 400%' have we no right to question that statement especially when the evidence before our eyes is so very different. Or does everybody have to sit on the NCU Board before they are allowed to ask a question?

Paul

I haven't chosen to use the word rant in a post before so I'm not where you get that opinion from and I disagree with more people than you. You will notice that I defined my use of rant and I think that your posting is very much in agreement with that. You are not the only the only person with an opinion and yours is no more valid than any other interested party. However your postings seem to mix passion for the game with aggression and disorganisation of thought and that too is a rant.

David Edwards

Its interesting that anytime anyone has a different view to yours, you call it a rant. My 'rant' was posted here at the same time as the other forum it just took longer to publish.

Perhaps your club began life this way....?

The Mayor of Kilgore

In the bygone era of shire horse and steam
when erstwhile men still followed the plough,
for working class folk, life was no idyllic dream
hard labour or starve, in contrast to the here and the now

The town of Kilgore an industrious place
linen and turf, the main produce and trade,
its workforce toiled daily at an unyielding pace,
united in pride by their skill with shuttle and spade

The Mayor of the town an affable peer
valued greatly, the effort his citizens gave,
he encouraged them all with relevant cheer
as the annual town taxes, he'd gratefully waive

But work without play, makes Jack and Jill rather dull
so this innovative man, requisitioned some land,
realising, that to maximise productivity and avoid lull
recreation lifts morale, which indirectly helps business expand

So hence the inception of Kilgore Cricket Club
a venue where townspeople would meet after work,
to play, spectate and fraternise at this new social hub,
even the Mayor a regular patron, chaperoned by his clerk

They entered a first eleven into the county league
hardy men from the community united in cause,
and despite some initial derision and combat fatigue,
Kilgore soon became proficient at the game, it's spirit and laws

By the following summer like cream, they'd reached the top
admired the county over, filling grounds home or away,
in each discipline, their players the pick of the crop
capturing the league title, such was their fine style of play

But jealously distinguishes not, betwixt commoner or lord
so when Kilgore made the final of the Varsity cup,
Upton Old Boys the opposition, aware of potential discord
hired a few professional players, to avoid any embarrassing slip up

Crowds thronged to the stadium, gentlemen and dames
as the sun chased off the clouds like an observant sentry,
and though certain chaps were playing under stage names
who would suspect misdemeanour, from respected gentry?

Upton chose to bat first, their skipper called the toss
having scant regard of Kilgore's ability to inflict a rout,
what could possibly go wrong, against lower class dross?
But those of arrogant disposition, often acquire a bloody snout

It started well for their batsmen, Upton's two skilful ringers
nonchalantly striking the ball to applause and cheers of approval,
but a change to a bowler, more adept at in and out swingers,
dismissed both, then what followed was sheer wholesale removal

After a calamitous collapse, tea, though Upton still optimistic
as chasing such a paltry total, would be no stroll in the park,
for within their ranks, a charlatan who bowled ballistic
and with victory secured, none would suspect duplicity or pass remark

Just as Kilgore's one and two, strolled out to the middle
in a nearby cottier's cottage lay dying, Patsy McSwiggan,
an old turf cutter and character, who enjoyed playing the fiddle,
his heart now weary from long years, spent lifting and digging

As a good pastor and family circle, solemnly stood by his bed
outdoors a paperboy yelled, " read all about an unlikely upset,"
then instantly up jumped the old navvy and exuberantly said,
"Please excuse me, I'm off to the bookmakers to place a bet

By now Kilgore's brave batsmen had their teeth firmly sunk in
like tenacious bullterriers, whose bloodlines are meticulously bred,
they countered the onslaught, ball after ball rearing up at their chin
by ruthlessly dispatching it, back over the bowler's head!

As the bowlers and fielders capitulated and crumbled in tow
Upton's chairman and committee panel, sat by the pavilion,
tendered their resignations, coinciding with the final, victorious blow
and Kilgore's proud Mayor raised the cup, attired in official vermillion

Despite Upton prevarication, speculation and rumour ran rife
the vanquished finalists had dug deep at immense financial cost,
by recruiting outside assistance, then fell on their own knife
as their mercenary players could not compete and so they lost

The victory celebrations lasted long into the wee small hours
many more joined the party, including a healthier, wealthier Patsy McSwiggan
for the spirit of working folk, knocked the toffs from their ivory towers
and to Patsy's fine fiddling they brought the cup to Kilgore, still singin'and jiggin'!

Re the previous postings by Nile Smith & "Billy" about Muckamore - lets face it - what other club could arrange for the Red Arrows to fly over the Junior Cup Final?!!! I think David Holmes got a bit excited!!

The old memory playing tricks!! My point was to query your assertion about the facilities at the "top" clubs. To compile a list of those clubs that DO measure up infrastructure-wise would be easier than the much longer list of those that don't. I always compare facilities with those provided at The Lawn - that is the template that others should strive towards. On a different issue the parallel with rugby does merit some consideration. I hope that the individual Unions will protect their independence from CI. I'm thinking of the debate going on about the move back to 10 teams - a move that may not be in line with CI thinking.

Andy, there's been more talk about that brush than Dixon Rose in the last two decades! However, a rare electronic scoreboard in the NCU is not the benchmark but grounds and facilities are very important. Name which of the top clubs that you feel are deficient in these areas and then we can assess them accordingly. Let's be transparent and open and please don't get into teas! We all know why Limavady folded but there are no parallels in NCU cricket. N Fermanagh is a totally different story.
PS Mark Harper at Donaghcloney not Roger. Remember him well as he used to blast me all over the village! However, met him a few years ago with Roger in Guyana and they both loved their Norn Ireland experience and the people they met. They had a host of stories between them.

sorry Hiler but I can't accept your point about the top clubs having facilities that match their status. Electronic scoreboards that only work when "adjusted" by hammering them with a brush, incredibly poor changing facilities and falling standards of pitches are some of my findings going round the grounds. I accept that there are excellent facilities particularly at "cricket only" clubs but I'm afraid they are in a minority. As you say, there are parallels with rugby. I recall the fanfare that greeted the All-Ireland league with high profile coaches from the southern hemisphere, clubs flying to Cork, etc. Then the money ran out especially in the Ulster Branch so we were back to a level playing field with some former senior teams now playing against opponents that wouldn't have taken under notice 15 years ago. The same thing happened in the early days of the cricket "pros" I'm sure you remember the the likes of Roger Harper at Donacloney as one example. The warnings in the present plight of Limavady & North Fermanagh are instances of what happens when the money runs out and let's be honest, that phrase "wait and see what happens if the money stops" is being bandied around NCU cricket when a particular club comes up in conversations! We've all heard it!!

Jareth,
I accept that the regulations were met with and that you cant make up regulations for each game, however for the "showpiece" of the NCU calendar, the Challenge Cup Final, their ought to be more leeway to enable as much cricket to be played, and a 6.11 cut off time in the first week of August makes no sense to me as the light would be good enough for play to continue for at least another hour and surely we want to watch games that are as near to 50 overs per side as the weather permits! (a later cut off time might also encourage more people to take a half day and attend the final.

Paul. You have moved from one forum to the other and your initial rant has now calmed down a little but again I'd have to ask why when you were on the inside and had the opportunity to influence these things did you jump ship after just a few months? It's very easy to pontificate (or rant) from the outside with no real knowledge of what is going on on the inside. You then expect the Chief Executive of Cricket Ireland to come on line and answer your questions when I'm sure he has better things to do.

You query the figures given by Warren Deutrom about cricket participation and then back up your suspicions by noting a loss in the number of clubs playing cricket and the number of senior teams; have you not thought to also consider the increase in the number of youth teams playing cricket these days? Whilst you might not wish to consider plastic bat cricket to be an indicator of cricket participation you obviously haven't considered that in these days of child protection hard ball cricket is no longer acceptable. Also physically a 6 year old would struggle to manage a wooden bat or to bowl or catch a real cricket ball so the plastic bat alternative permits them to participate. Plastic bat cricket is not real cricket but by the same argument 5 aside football is not football.

There were a number of reasons for 8 team leagues, not all of which were generated by Cricket Ireland. The days of old when it was acceptable to take an entire day playing cricket and après cricket have long gone because the Northern Irish social landscape has changed. There have been rumblings for some time that cricket is taking up too much time often manifested in motions to reduce the overs or change start times to get the games over early enough to permit the new view of social interaction or family life. If you do the maths you'll find that if a team goes all the way in each competition within the NCU area then there are in excess of 30 matches with a ten team league and without rearrangements this is quite a burden. Alternatives such as no rearrangements were considered but it was felt that 8 team leagues were the best option and would also promote a best v best to contribute to the improvement in the standard of the game. There are other forces in play beyond the gift of the NCU that may have an adverse effect on this ideal. Also remember that there would be considerable difficulty in fitting in the interpro tournaments that you have been calling for. You can't have it all ways. You were part of this discussion at the time but chose to jump ship because you didn't like the decision of the Board rather than using some diplomacy to try to persuade them of the errors of their ways and you retreated to your previous, cosy option of shouting from the sidelines.

There is a margin of error in an 8 team league just as there is in a 10 team structure but it happens to be less. There are 11 players in a team and each gets at least two chance to influence the game so there are plenty of opportunities to make mistakes and learn from them so I'm not sure I understand the logic behind your argument. I'm sure it isn't a lot of fun being Muckamore or Ballymena at the moment, but I'd need to hear from them to be sure, but why would a ten team league help? On the basis of the way that Section 1 tends to go the winners tend to beat just about all around them and therefore this difference in standard means that Ballymena and Muckamore would have two teams that they could bully. So let's have a 12 team Premier League then... and so on ad infinitum. The 6 team league hypothesis is just petulant nonsense.

In short, I can see where you're trying to go and it's back to the dark ages. There has and always will be movement between clubs. Some players will always strive to higher levels and if it doesn't succeed will return to a lower standard and it has been going on for years. These days there are other influences but that is part and parcel of the development of the game and if it doesn't work as an experiment then these influences will be replaced by something else. Let's just hope we don't reinvent the flat tyre in the process.