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to ask the assist editor - what would those senior players consider a realistic "wage"? If clubs expect umpires to stand in games then surely they should be reciprocating by providing umpires from within their membership to facilitate other games. I call it being responsible.
Andy, I think I must start by saying I am talking in terms of what I think should happen in reality, not what would happen in an ideal world.
The figure being discussed was £100 for a Premier League game. Now before anyone asks that was plucked from the air and has not had the 'ins and outs' discussed.
We have reached, in fact gone beyond, the point were there enough umpires to serve the local game so we must act.
Asking the clubs to force their members into umpiring I'm afraid is pointless as they will not do it but leave the game instead (ideal world scenario again).***
Financial reward has benefits for both the individual and club.
We can over the rights and wrongs of the responsibility of players to become umpires when they finish playing (just like dropping down the teams, working on the ground, coaching the kids etc etc) but in reality this just doesn’t happen as much nowadays, we can't fight that and more importantly, discussing how wrong it is won’t get people umpiring games.
So I think we need to settle for a practical solution.
And you never know when clubs see a financial benefit to providing umpires to NIACUS maybe there will be an increase in new members, maybe…
*** Just noticed that is in fact what is being proposed!!!
How Sad that People can't Officiate or play in a game without money
What have we become....
Money doesn't talk, it shouts!
just to clarify a possible misunderstanding. Rugby referees are given the opportunity to purchase international tickets - at face value. Invariably this is part of a "package deal" where tickets for more than one match have to be bought, is usually for one of the lesser international sides and is normally the top of the range tickets face value round 90euro so not really the "perk" that it first appears. As for selling on e-bay - don't think anyone would want to prejudice future allocations by getting involved in that. But this raises the question - would a free ticket for an Ireland game be an incentive for umpires? And I still take issue with guys who say that clubs can't be "made" to provide umpires. "Proper" cricket cannot be played without umpires so why can clubs not contribute to this vital issue? The alternative? - we all have heard horror stories of what happens "DOWN THE LEAGUES"!
Andy, I personally think that making clubs provide umpires may actually drive more people away from the game at a time when most clubs are struggling to hold on to the membership they have!
I actually think the solution is a much bigger fee, BUT, those clubs that provide the umpires should be rewarded with reduced fees accordingly and those that don't supply umpires, pay for the service.
I have spoken to a fee senior players who have said they would do a couple of games a year for a realistic 'wage'.
And of course the higher the league the greater the fee.
IPS
Asst Ed
Very saddened to hear my old French teacher has passed on.
Ernie was a real gentleman and a great and very enthusiastic cricketer and footballer , many a Friday morn his class subject was hijacked before he got his coat off as a young pupil with no real interest in learning any language would start to ask his thoughts about the next days football, then after easter the cricket talk continued to deprive the rest of the class of learning le verbs.
Im sure that all that passed through the establishment on the Magheralave road of a similar vintage of mine, will be saddened by the news.
Rest in Peace Ernie.
re JONATHAN AND UMPIRES ATTIRE
My reply was in jest hence the smiley face at the end of the remark.
I think Clarence realised that when he replied!
Sam,
In the old days in the North West some umpires wouldn't have done it for ten times that amount after a rough time at one of the grounds! We can't compare umpires with any other sports because they are different but 50 quid is a reasonable figure and no club is laying out 1800 quid on their own. Divide it by the clubs and you still come back to 100 quid a match for two umpires. Compare that to the players wages bill. Also, if clubs provide umpires they should be rewarded and its not a bad idea to look outside retired players as the only source of recruitment as someone has already suggested.
People need a reality check here. Check the fixtures there are 18 league matches on average per week. If umpires get fifty quid a match as wanted, now times that by two as there are two at each match. that is an outlay of eighteen hundred quid a week in umpires fees!!!!
Reference comments from Chris Busby about umpires fees etc.
As others have mentioned we are certainly not comparing like for like. A bit of a difference for 80 minutes playing time compared to a 50 overs per side cricket match lasting 6/7 hours. Don't forget umpires also have travelling time to/from games plus they too have to be there an hour before play begins and after the game they could also have to remain behind to deal with various matters pertaining to the game. Rarely I guess less than a 10 hour day.
Chris talks about the distance rugby referees have to travel - umpires are the same as these days games are played all over the north and also I understand umpires sometimes travel all over Ireland - North & South on umpire exchanges etc.
Chris says he gets no match fee - well 32 pounds to travel is pretty good for say a 100 mile round trip plus the perk of probably getting rugby international tickets which I guess if he wished he could sell at inflated prices !! He says he has to pay a referees membership fee - so do the umpires and they also pay for their courses,exams etc. plus all their gear.
Nobody is suggesting hugh fees for umpires - certainly not 150 pounds per game although I guess the umpires would like this !! It has been suggested 50 pounds per game this season would be a fair starting point with annual reviews - I really don't think this would break the bank for most if not all the clubs who currently are supplied with umpires week after week.
JW "Ernie" McCleary
Ulster sport has lost a genuine all-rounder with the sad passing of 88 year-old Ernie McCleary. School teacher Ernie was a fine right-handed batsman who excelled at Cliftonville after moving from Lurgan in the 1950s. He was also an outstanding centre-half for Cliftonville Football Club and won many honours including an international cap against Wales. He was passionate about sport and the spirit of the game. Always an engaging conversationalist he was a great ambassador of both codes. Unfortunately his last few years were not so good after he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease.
Sincere condolences to his family and many friends at both Cliftonville Cricket and Football Clubs.
Clarence Hiles
Editor
I'm afraid I can't make out what $^x8*@80 or *%:$150/8 is ? Or maybe my screens faulty ?
How an ever, all I was trying to say is that it can be a long day out in the middle but no less enjoyable for that !
As someone who was involved as an "active" rugby referee from the 70s to the mid noughties I note from Chris's posting that little has changed in the USRFR. I note the "massive" rise in the mileage rate, which was around 25p in my day. I did the trips to Strabane and City of Derry but then this was off set by the likes of the Ballymoney & Antrim games. I'm not sure that AIL referees get the same level of payment but I would suggest that their rate may be higher. The situation has changed from those early days in that there were more games than referees available. That is no longer the case. I can recall that senior sides like Malone ran at least 12 teams, Ballymena 6 and Bangor 6 to name a few. There was a marked increase in recent years of young guys who saw the opportunities afforded to progress "up the levels" coing into the Society. Cricket on the other hand has too many games with too few umpires and the age profile is indicative of the problems that lie ahead. I would iterate my earlier posting that the numbers attending this year's course will go no way to cover the shortfall and indicate that yet again clubs are not facing up to their responsibility for another season. Clearly another long summer for Ian Houston who carries out his almost impossible task - I can't think of anyone who would be as phlegmatic and good humoured to do the job of Appointments Secretary.
Ref: C Boomer
No doubt that time is a factor, although in fairness rugby reffing generally takes at least 3.5/4 hours (we have to be there at least 60 mins beforehand) without travel time so your still talking about it taking up most of your Saturday afternoon. The odd trip to Cavan/ Monaghan/ Derry will easily take up as much time as a cricket match.
This doesnt change the fact that there are about 100 active refs every Saturday from whom money is no factor (indeed I've just got an email this afternoon to pay subs this year so I'm paying for the privilege).
The point I was making about pay is that to pay a decent wage (I used �8/ hour as a base level) that it would cost at least �150 per match which just wont be sustainable. I dont ever think the union will be in a position to persuade people to get involved in Umpiring for financial reasons and so it may be better to focus on other motives- fitness, staying involved in the game, avoiding shopping on a Saturday afternoon???
re C Boomer
Far from the umpires fees being exaggerated they could even be cut price if I'm using your figures.
8 hours x 8 = 64
50 mile round trip = 16
Total �80..... but that's only for one umpire. If travel time is paid then that can only get greater.
Chris Busby
With respect Chris, Maximum permitted time for a rugby match 80 mins + injury time and off home for the rest of the day !
Minimum time for a cricket match 4 hours, but usually anywhere between 6 to 10 hours and the possibility if rain intervenes, start again Monday evening or a replay !
And by the time you get home of an evening, reheat your tea in the oven if the dog hasn't already got it and then it's bedtime !
And the figures you're quoting for umpire fees if I'm reading them correctly are grossly exaggerated even if that includes a well deserved increased payment for same !
Sad to learn of the passing away of Ernie McCleary. A true gentleman who had amazing talents.
