Forum

As an attendee at the NCU AGM last night I'm glad to see that eight team leagues has been introduced albeit by the slimmest of majorities. However some of those who objected to their introduction are seemingly not prepared to let go of the past. Michael Foster was more than prepared to voice his opinions and in my opinion besmirtches the reputation of the NCU President by intimating that there was some underhand purpose behind the speed with which he moved on to the next agenda item without requesting a recount. Perhaps Michael you could have voiced an opinion on that at the time and a recount I'm sure would have been permitted.
Jonah notes that he has heard that eight team leagues will be 2 up and 2 down but no such decision has been made so this can be discounted as mere scaremongering; dodgy maths by the way because this would mean 4 teams out of the 8 leaving each league with the exception of Section 1 of the Premier league... I make that 50% which I think makes 1 up and 1 down the more likely option but that decision will be made in consultation with the clubs I expect.
The Victoria representatives, at least I'm surmising that P Carpenter is in some way affiliated to that club, believe that this is all a plot to look after the big clubs and keep the serfs in their place. The NCU is even considering no promotion or relegation from the top league! This is not the ICC where the power is in the hands of a few it is equally spread amongst the clubs by being dependent upon the number of teams that you enter which is a fair approximation to the relative percentage of members of the NCU. As such, such a change could only take place with the permission of 60% of the membership that attends the AGM... unlikely I'm guessing.
This will be one of the rare occasions when I'm going to agree with Andy Kennedy. I've done the maths on behalf of the Development Directorate when the 8 team league proposal was first put forward and a team reaching the final of all domestic competitions would find themselves playing 31 long fixtures when (including bank holidays) there are only 47 available dates and fewer still for non Sunday playing teams. A few wet weekends and space for the much clamoured for inter-provincials puts a big hole in the spare capacity... and then there's time needed for the T20.
I see the 8 team leagues as having several benefits. Firstly, it means that the leagues should be more competitive and that should benefit Irish cricket as a whole. It also means that cricket will not become a full time occupation during the summer and that takes the pressure off those with wives, girlfriends or a social life.

Junior Cricket,
Gents the thinking behind the restructuring of leagues was to enable every team to find there level. too avoid one sided games and to encourage senior players to keep playing and or return to the game. As far as i am aware the consensus from the roadshows would be to retain the 2 up 2 down for the coming seasons to enable clubs to find their level quicker, However this was not taking into account the changes of the new junior league 1 too an 8 team league in 2012. Therefore I suggest that the issue of promotion and relegation be looked at again to take into account this update, perhaps going straight to 8 team leagues throughout the junior league for 2011 could be an option. As for the prospect of waringstowns 2,3,4 and 5's being in the same league, sorry but my reading of the proposals from the task force where that no more than two from one club in one section ( I think this is a bye law and therefore does not need to go through agm). I think the agm answered some questions but created some new ones which in all honesty were not forseen.

I have no problem with the Premier League being reduced to 8 clubs and think that all clubs should be prepared to make a small sacrifice in the hope that this change might raise standards in Ulster and Irish cricket. However, I said ‘small’ sacrifice. I really can’t understand why this change had to have such a dramatic effect on all 37 senior clubs. Were the implications thought through for S1, S2 and S3 clubs? For example:

- The 4 bottom clubs in S1 will be ‘relegated’ to S2 in 2012. It’s even more dramatic further down with only the top 4 clubs in S2 remaining there in 2012 meaning the bottom 6 clubs in S2 face ‘relegation’ to S3. Furthermore, all 7 clubs in S3 have no chance to be promoted before 2012 and then from a league of 13!

- an S2 side will play 18 games in 2011 and then in 2012 either play 14 in S2 or 12 in S3. Was it really such a problem to play 18 league games? Is such a drastic reduction needed? With work and holiday commitments, many 1st XI players could end up playing half-a-dozen games a season. Is that really what 1st XI players wanted?

Why wasn’t a simple solution for 2012 to have 8 in the PL, 10 in S1, 10 in S2 and 9 in S3? The 2 up 2 down for which there seems to have been good support would have remained except between the PL and S1. And if S1 also wanted to reduce the number of games to be able to play in the Clubturf or whatever, then a reasonable compromise would surely have been 8 in PL, 9 in S1, 10 in S2 and 10 in S3. What does it matter outside the PL exactly how many teams there are?

What if I propose this at the 2011 AGM for 2012? Is it too late to think a bit more about the 29 senior clubs who won't play in the PL in 2012?

I sat on the small subcommittee for Cricket Ireland on the eight team leagues for top flight cricket.

It appears to me that the proposals put in front of the NCU bear no resemblence whatsoever to those put forward by the subcommittee so could someone clarify for me what has actually been passed?

So far it seems there are 8 team leagues from 2012 and no promotion to the top flight next year. So what has been agreed?

Is there promotion from Sections 2,3 and 4 for 2011? If not then there is most definitely relegation from those leagues.

Assuming there is no promotion next season then there are 4 teams relegated from Section 2 into 3. There are 6 teams relegated from Section 3 into Section 4. Section 4 will consist of the 6 teams relegated from Section 3 plus the top 2 from Section 4. A new Section 5 will emerge from the rest.

Bearing in mind that there are 6 teams who have missed out on promotion in 2011 this means a total of 23 out of 27 clubs will be adversely affected in order to accomodate the top ten. Where is the fairness in that?

Roy - 8 leagues in junior league from 2012, not next season. Also your tables are a bit out - the current div 3 section 1 go in at a league above the old division 2 section 3 (rationale being the top thirds teams are stronger than the lowest seconds teams). There will be no promotion next season but 2 teams will be relegated from junior league one (2.1) + from each of the other leagues below (with no promotion). So, part time cricketer view is half right - there may well be meaningless games for those who achieve safety, which is effectively the only thing all but the top sides in the premier league + 2.1 will be playing for next season. Should be fun!!!

Michael - that was my mistake (re no promotion/relegation) in my haste to put the news on to the NCU site last night. Now removed.

The Junior League structure comes in to place for the 2011 season.

Then in 2012 Junior league 1 will revert to 8 team league - meaning no promotion, but teams in 7th & 8th being relegated in the process to make 8 team leagues.
Would it not be a good idea, if its not already happening, to have all junior leagues 8 teams from 2011.
Can someone make it clear that the new junior league is starting in 2011 or is it 2012?

From my understanding from the AGM and using a quick formula based on last season league tables - am I right in saying the 2011 Junior league structure be as follows:

NCU Junior League 1 - 50 overs
Waringstown II
Lisburn II
North Down II
Woodvale II
Ballymena II
Instonians II
Carrickfergus II
Bangor II
Lurgan II
CIYMS II

NCU Junior League 2 - 40 overs
Muckamore II
CSNI II
Holywood II
Saintfield II
Downpatrick II
Derriaghy II
Larne II
Donaghcloney II

NCU Junior League 3 - 40 overs
Cliftonville II
Laurelvale II
Cooke Collegians II
Armagh II
Millpark II
Cregagh II
Academy II
Donaghadee II

NCU Junior League 4 - 35 overs
Templepatrick II
Victoria II
Portadown II
Dundrum II
Dungannon II
Ards II
Dunmurry II
Waringstown III

NCU Junior League 5 - 35 overs
CSNI III
North Down III
Woodvale III
Bangor III
Ballymena III
Lisburn III
Bangor IV
Waringstown IV

NCU Junior League 6 - 35 overs
Muckamore III
Instonians III
CSNI IV
Derriaghy III
Saintfield III
Carrickfergus III
Armagh III
North Down IV

NCU Junior League 7 - 30 overs
CIYMS III
Laurelvale III
Lurgan III
Carrickfergus IV
Larne III
Armagh IV
Ards III
Ballymena IV

NCU Junior League 8 - 30 overs
CSNI V
Holywood III
Muckamore IV
Downpatrick III
Templepatrick III
Instonians IV
Derriaghy IV
Academy III

NCU Junior League 9 - 30 overs
CIYMS IV
Waringstown V
Bangor V
Cregagh III
Victoria III
CSNI VI
Cliftonville III

So what was wrong with the old system? I thought the 2up 2down system and the 20/20 replays had improved the problem of teams fielding weak teams at the end of the season. Most fixtures are now fulfilled by clubs . Is losing 4 fixtures a season going to improve cricket and encourage more cricketers? Chances are if you get a couple of saturdays off it might encourage some guys to spend every saturday with the family !! Surely 2 up 2 down is now a 50% change in the league each year.I quite enjoyed the rapport built up with the same old teams each year.
The only positive is that 3rd XI will be able to play at home more often and not have to pay for a council pitch.
Finally with no promotion or relegation next year I wonder how many teams will concede games at the end of next season and how many will not pay a professional coach for a year to save some money?
p.s. looking forward to Waringstown 2XI 3XI 4XI and 5XI all being in the same league

Gentlemen,
There have been some good points raised in the aftermath of the AGM decision last night and I hope Andy Clement replies to clear up the uncertainty. With specific reference to the "NCU hierarchy" I'm confused because the AGM is a democratic forum where every club has a vote per team so the decision-makers or "hierarchy" are really the big clubs with the voting power not the union officers. What surprises me is that clubs go to meetings without their full voting strength, and it is unfortunate that there is sparse representation of premier cricketers to hear their views. Also I'm totally confused when I see a split vote coming from a club. At the end of the day there has to be a vote and a decision taken to move forward and the 60% requirement is indicative of a significant majority. As for "them and us", the 1975 AGM amalgamated senior and junior cricket but over the years it has become very clear that both have different objectives and maybe there needs to be another way of dealing with the two cultures? However, doesn't this happen at every club week-in, week-out throughout the season?

Maybe at Victoria C.C. we are the exception to the rule, what with all the talk of the struggling fortunes of various cricket clubs throughout the land.

Our club had a very successful season just past, with the formation of a new third eleven and our 2nds & 1st teams finishing well up the tables in their respective leagues.

But ofcourse it wasn't always like that, in fact far from it and but for the 'labours of love' of a few dedicated individuals from within the club, I dare not contemplate where we would have all ended up !

So by way of a celebration for our club's successful year and to give hope and countanence to other clubs out there, who maybe feeling the strain, take hope and inspiration from a 'wee' story/poem I composed last nite on my Vic Johns blog, on our website.

'The legacy of JB.' about a Captain's struggles and how he rolls the sleeves up, see's out the storm and then reaps the benefits !

I agree with Michael’s comments about the speed that the next motion was moved onto. The Officials clearly wanted to please their special guests. What I found most unsatisfactory about the vote last night was the way it was presented. With Junior cricket before a vote was taken there was a consultation process throughout the season with the clubs which meant that clubs were fully aware what they were voting for and it was passed almost unanimously.

However, with the senior leagues, there was one sheet of paper presented on the night which looked like it had been drawn up on the back of a cigarette packet and club representatives were meant to make an informed decision. Whilst the NCU have been trying to push this through for a couple of years they have never explained how it would work in practice. Perhaps if there was proper consultation with clubs rather than just Cricket Ireland prior to the AGM a similar consensus could have been reached instead of a significant minority feeling aggrieved.

It is indicative of the lack of consultation that on the forum people are asking questions about what this means for them e.g. 2 up 2 down, how many teams in the bottom section etc. There are other questions also to be asked such as the standard of pros in the newly constituted Premier league 1 and 2, what format will these fabled T20 matches/competitions take, what happens if the North West don’t pass 8 team leagues, will there be a change in the current rules regarding rearrangements and I’m sure others will have questions.

Perhaps the NCU should realise that cricket is not just about the international team as this decision has left many clubs with very little to play for next season and, in my view, only strengthens the hands of bigger clubs as the expense of smaller ones in the longer term and as such all clubs opinions should have been sought in a similar way as was done at junior cricket level.

Inclined to agree with M.Parks in that if you aren't one of the "big" clubs then the NCU aren't remotely interested in whether you sink or swim. Wouldn't surprise me if they ringfence their top 8 to safeguard their elite.

Cricket in the NCU is dying and if the powers think that playing less and pushing clubs down a ladder will help then the mind boggles.

I for one am pleased to see the introduction of the 8 team leagues. As I have posted on many occasions - our weather isn't conducive to 18 league games together with cup games. We had a particularly good start to 2010 season and yet games in the 2nd Division fell foul of poor weather towards the end of the season. I realise that some clubs have misgivings but I believe that this is a progressive step that will sort itself out in a couple of seasons.

From what i've heard the new 8 team leagues will be 2 up & 2 down. I agree with the 8 team leagues, but 2 up & 2 down is a joke.... 25% of the teams within the league will change from season to season. You should have to work harder than that to play in the league above. 2nd place in the league is just that, I don't feel you should be rewarded for it... work harder & raise the standards around you!