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vanburn

Home

20th Jul 2008

Jeff Maguire - Tips (horses?)
Jeff
Spoke to Holmesy at Comber yesterday during Challenge Cup Semi, and it seems my previous posts (should that read Starting Posts?) have perhaps been taken out of context? Feel free to continue with your horse racing tips, it would seem you know more about the nags than you do about cricket!!!! Maybe I should take more notice, and who knows I might make some money, but then again it is at times difficult to understand your language! Look forward to seeing you at the Cup Final on 15 August and having a pint (or should that be a "punt") with you. Holmesy says first pint is on you?

paul Hatton

Dublin

20th Jul 2008

Congratulations Donemana on reaching the Irish Senior Cup final. Now we can have a true North v South final which is what the competition is all about. I understand the venue has yet to be decided but let's toss for either Dublin or North West and not fall into the trap of playing at Stormont. Either venue would guarantee a good crowd but with no NCU team involved the match should not be staged there.

Wayne Horwood

belfast

20th Jul 2008

Without getting into the sunday debate I feel that amateur sportsman being asked to take holidays to play cricket on a friday is farcical. The self employed give up a days work, others take hard earned holidays to play cricket.

paddy mcintyre

Armagh

18th Jul 2008

Re Sunday Debate

I don't want to turn this into an argument over religious beliefs but I would like to point out that on Sunday the Ulster GAA Final will take place in front of 30000 fans.

Surely this is an example that people can have their religious beliefs, go to their place of worship but still find time to play and watch sport at the highest level.

Perhaps the 28 members could learn a thing or two from the GAA.

Paddy

Ps loved your reply Michael Patterson!

Michael Patterson

Lisburn

18th Jul 2008

Michael, what's the cricket difference in 28 players not being available on a Friday because they have to work? Conscience is obviously very important to certain individuals but to many others, economics is just as important. Also you have to respect the views of others who don't subscribe to the 'no sport on Sunday' culture because your club elects to play within a union structure that makes democratic decisions based on a two-thirds majority. There's no easy solution because every club has its own problems and we live in an era where dog eats dog to get an advantage, and perhaps four points. Goodwill to all men is the common sense solution that seems to be getting less and less every season.

ivan mc combe

Muckamore

18th Jul 2008

Michael
I think we need to be careful that we don't turn this "Never on a Sunday " into a Ballymena issue. I think the town suffered in the past being referred to as the Bible Belt, locking the swings and closing the swimming pool never mind the cancelling of an ELO concert. You will play cricket for a long time anywhere in the world before you find a nicer or more popular group of individuals as the Kennedy brothers, Carl Williams, Mark Adair etc. As you know from being our scorer at the time I captained a Ballymena 2nds team for a couple of seasons that was made up primarily of guys whose Christian beliefs forbade them playing Sunday cricket and we had great comaradere and great fun. I just happen to be of the opinion that the "witness" part of being a Christian might be better served relaxing this reluctance to take part in "only a game" on a Sunday.
So lets not focus on any club and lets just look at the wider picture. If the majority of teams want to play Sunday cricket why the power of veto. I hope our country is a civilised country or at least aiming to be. We are moving away I feel from this Ulster Protestantism mindset to a more multi cultered society and abolishing the Never on a Sunday stance is another step in that direction. I know that at Muckamore we now probably have more spectators at our Sunday games than we do have on a Saturday and I think this might be the case at other grounds.

Michael Taylor

Ballymena

18th Jul 2008

Andy,

This issue extends throughout the whole club.

To the best of my knowledge, of the 62 players who have represented the club at men's level so far this year, 28 (45%) would not play cricket, or any other sport, on a Sunday.

Admittedly this does not constitute a majority, but so significant is this proportion that it is clearly impractical for Ballymena to schedule fixtures for Sundays.

Webmaster

HQ

18th Jul 2008

Good luck to Donemana tomorrow in the ISC, you're flying the flag for the whole province, not just the North-West!

andy kennedy

not Ballymena

18th Jul 2008

Perhaps Michael Taylor would clarify if the "non-Sunday cricket" relates solely to the 1st XI odr does it extend extends to other sides in the club?

Michael Taylor

Ballymena

18th Jul 2008

Ivan,

I have read your contributions to the Sunday cricket debate with interest, but I find that I have a few objections, both to some of your and other people’s comments on the issue.

At this point I should make clear that, although I do not play Sunday cricket in the NCU on account of being a member of Ballymena CC, I am not a Christian, I have no principled objection to Sunday cricket and, indeed, I regularly play on Sundays while at university. However, my respect for the beliefs of those who do not wish to play on Sundays should be made abundantly clear below.

Firstly, you correctly make the point that Ballymena have played Sunday cricket in the recent past. Indeed, I played in two Sunday fixtures for our 1st XI in 2005, away to both Woodvale and Laurelvale: we played those matches without six of the Christians in our side and lost both encounters heavily. However, these occasions have been the exceptions rather than the rule, matches which were played in desperation in order to fulfil our fixtures during trying times: you will remember that in April, May and June of 2005 Ballymena effectively had no home ground, what with extensive drainage work being carried out at Eaton Park.

Thus, when the NCU created this official ‘roster’ of non-Sunday clubs, the only sensible option for us was to sign up. By doing so we both respected the wishes of the many players within our club who held Christian values, while also avoiding the situation where we would have matches scheduled or compulsorily re-arranged on days when we had no home ground. Such a decision was both considered and practical.

Again, I cannot fault you when you remark upon the unfortunate difficulty players experience when trying to make themselves available for mid-week matches, but no club is exempt from this problem, including Ballymena. If we take as an example the Saintfield match that sparked this debate, we were missing Michael Glass, Gareth Fisher and, sadly, Richard White, had this been the Friday before, Mark Adair, myself and no doubt a few others could not have played. Though Saintfield fielded a 1st XI which was missing five or six regular players, of the Ballymena XI which played on that Friday, nine would have been unavailable had the match been scheduled for a Sunday.

“Tough!” you might say, given that players are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to disappointing either their employer or their captain, but one could reasonably argue that the bond between man and God, for those who choose to enter into such a relationship, is much stronger than between boss and worker and its terms perhaps non-negotiable. That Ballymena’s cricketers can, in the most part, make themselves available for cricket during the week is something totally unrelated to their stance regarding playing on Sundays, and is merely coincidental. If this were not the case, and if players such as the Kennedy brothers and Carl Williams could not get off work to play mid-week then our position, given the circumstances outlined above, would still be no different.

You continue with the statement that the situation such as we have in the NCU is uniquely ridiculous, “that is does not happen in any other civilised country”, asking “why should it happen here”? The answer is simple: Northern Ireland is a special case. This has, for time immemorial, been one of the most passionately religious regions in the Western world, with the fervency of Ulster Protestantism – and this in just purely theological rather than socio-political terms – renowned, well-documented and even feared. Where religion is such a strong part of public life and so intrinsic to the character of a country (as I write this, the News Letter sits beside me, its headline reading: “MP defends the role of faith in politics”) perhaps a little more care needs to be taken.

You further argue that there is not “any single good reason” why a club should have the power to decide whether or not it plays cricket on a Sunday. Leaving aside circumstances particular to individual clubs, the main reason is this, and though it may sound high-handed and irrelevant to the matter at hand, please hear it out: the political, social and constitutional fabric of the United Kingdom and much of the Western world is, or at least has been for some time, dominated by the idea of liberty, whether it be political, social or religious. The freedom of choice to play or to not play cricket, or to work, or to be formally engaged in any activity on a Sunday might not be the most convenient to those it indirectly affects, but it is typical of the freedom of belief and expression afforded by the liberal democracy which has stimulated so much of the prosperity we currently enjoy. If Northern Ireland is, as you have just said, a “civilised country” then surely this principle should be upheld.

Not for one minute am I arguing that if we forced Sunday cricket upon clubs within the NCU then the moral fabric of our society would unravel before our eyes, but my concluding point is this: liberty of conscience must prevail, and I think you might agree that its importance is much greater than that of four points in Section Two.

Mark

Belfast

18th Jul 2008

Are you saying this is a civilised country Ivan? We're hardly a good example of that.
On Sunday cricket there is certainly a minority involved but that doesn't make them dispensable. Why drive them out of cricket because we can't find a workable solution? If civilization equals democracy then we should be able to accommodate everyone's views and that's exactly what's happening right now. It's still only a game and if people want to play they'll play. If some want to go on holidays, shop with the wife, work, or go to church then that's their prerogative. Toleration and accommodation are the buzz words these days, are they not?

ivan mc combe

Muckamore

18th Jul 2008

Never on a Sunday.
The article gathers up on the thoughts of the few posts there have been on the subject however I can't see how it "would be a sad day when club's are forced to play Sunday cricket ". Surely this is a decision for the NCU and if a 60% vote for Sunday cricket is carried then that's it. After that if a club or a team don't want to play they should be at the mercy of the opposition with regard to rearrangements. In 2008 the number of Never on a Sunday cricketers must be a very small number(judging by the teams fielded on a Sunday) and I can't see any single good reason why they should have a power of veto. It doesn't happen in any other civilised country so why should it happen here.

Andrew White

Home

16th Jul 2008

On behalf of my Dad, Richard and Alison, may I offer our deep gratitude to everyone who expressed words of sympathy and support over the past week. It was touching to have so many cricketers and administrators in attendance at the funeral on Sunday. The silence observed by the Ireland squad in Holland was also greatly appreciated.
Mum was more than someone who washed the 'kit' and like everyone, was delighted with the teams achievements over the past 5-6 years, culminating in the World Cup journey.

Andrew

andy kennedy

not Ballymena

16th Jul 2008

a couple of seasons ago my son Michael played at North Maidenhead and they played league matches on both Saturdays & Sundays with separate leagues and fixtures for their Saturday & Sunday "teams" i.e. guys who could only play on one day - and also for those who could play on both days. had a most pleasant Sunday afternnon watching a game against the Fleet Street Strollers - lots of euridite guys like myself!!
P.S. I know that there is always controversy over the implementation of the NCU rules - the rule book over there was like a copy of the Belfast Telegraph!!!
P.P.S. I don't want to raise again the Derriaghy registrations issue of a couple of years back but I was interested to see that a big county like Yorkshire could get it wrong!! As a red rose supporter nothing surprises me!!

ivan mc combe

Muckamore

16th Jul 2008

Ed
Sorry I didn't mean clarification on what actually happens.I think forcing games to be played on a Friday devalues the competitions when you see some of the sides that take the field. Now I know we could revert to two night matches but that was also unpopular. If some clubs are expected to play on a Friday with a few players missing why can't other clubs play on a Sunday with a few players missing. Sunday cricket is the norm throughout the world. I have always respected teammates views when it came to Sunday cricket just as I expected them to respect mine. I understand that some clubs may have long standing even legal issues with being able to play at home but that shouldn't stop them playing away. When I asked for clarification I meant is it not time to rule that Sunday is a day of competition within the NCU and the prime rearrangement day. I think at one time and maybe still in the NW the rule was Saturday matches rained off were played on the first available Sunday. After that the next rearrangement is a one night Twenty 20 affair ( with a second night allocated if neccessary ) As cricket spreads it's net throughout all schools we are going to get more and more blue collar workers playing the game. It is these guys who are always going to find it harder to get time off in the working week to play. In fact I know guys that work in retail and the ONLY day they are available is a Sunday. Similarily some guys with young families involved in other activities find that Saturday is the family day and Sunday is the only option they have for a game. Like everything I don't think there is the "perfect" solution but maybe the NCU Directorate need to revisit this and get a "rain check" to see what the majority of clubs/players want.